Comment by OriPekelman

Comment by OriPekelman

So, I do a have a war story about something like this, possibly at a worst state. And possibly with somewhat higher stakes (around 400m$/year) at the time. I came in as a consultant with my own "parallel implementation team". In my case I was somewhat lucky because most of the system was composed of batch jobs. They did have "frameworks" with "ORMs" but they had 4 or 5 of them, with many files being pinned to some older version. Which meant that actually there were dozens.

There were thousands and thousands of business rules no one knew why they were there and if they were still relevant. I remember one fondly. If product=="kettle" and color=="blue" and volume=="1l" then volume=1.5l... This rule like many others would run on the millions of product lines they would import daily. And the cutest thing in the system was that if any single exception happened during a batch run... the whole run would fail. And every run would take close to 15 hours (sometimes more).

Not going into details ... But they couldn't afford the run going over 24 hours... And every day they were inching closer.

Similar to OP they extensively used EAV + "detail tables" to be able to add "things" to the database.

The web application itself was similar but less of a time-bomb. It was using some proprietary search engine that was responsible for structuring much of the interaction (a lot of it was drill-down in categories).

Any change on the system had to happen live with no downtime. Every minute of downtime was $1,000 in lost revenue.

The assumptions we had were: 1. At some point the system will catastrophically fail so 100% of the revenu will be lost for a long time. 2. Even if it were possible to rewrite the system to the same specs (which it wasn't because no one knew what the system actually did) such a rewrite would probably be delivered after the catastrophe.

The approach we used was to 1. Instrument the code - see what was used what wasn't. We set some thresholds - and we explained to the stakeholders they were going to be potentially be losing revenue/functionality. And we started NoOping PHP files like crazy. Remember, whatever they did the worse thing they could do is raise 2. Transform all batch jobs to async workers (we initially kept the logic the same) - but this allowed us with 1# to group things by frequency. 3. Rewrite the most frequent jobs in a different language (we chose Ruby) to make sure no debt could be carried over. NoOp the old code. 4. Proxy all http traffic and group coherent things together with front controllers that actually had 4 layers "unclean external" - whatever mess we got from the outside. "clean internal" which was the new implementation. "clean external" and "unclean internal" which would do whatever hacks needed to recreate side effects that were actually necessary. The simple mandate was that whenever someone did any change to frontend code they needed to move the implementation to "clean external". 5. We ported over the most crucial, structuring parts to Ruby as independent services (not really micto-services just reasonable well structured chunks that were sufficiently self-contained). If I remember correctly this was something of the size of "User" and "Catalog browser" the other things stayed as PHP scripts. 6. And with savagery any time we got the usage levels of anything low enough.. we'd NoOp them.

Around a year in there was still a huge mess of PHP around but most of it was no longer doing any critical business functions. Most of the traffic was going through the new clean interfaces that had unit tests, documentation etc. I think that 100% of the "write path" was ported over to Ruby. A lot of reports (all of them?) and some pages were still in PHP.

I don't think anyone ever noticed all the functionality that went away. We had time to replace the search engine with Elastic Search. It wasn't clean by any means but it was sturdy enough not to have catastrophes.

The company was bought by some corp around that time... and they transitioned the whole thing to a SaaS solution. I was no longer involved for quite awhile so I only heard about it later. But we bought them that extra year or more.

So .. as far as recommendations go: 1. Instrument the code (backfire.io !) 2. Find bang for the buck and some reasonable layer separation and do it chunk by chunk. 3. Don't try to reproduce everything you have. Go for major use-cases 4. Communicate clearly that this is coming with functionality loss. 5. Be emotionally ready for this being a long long journey.

Replies OriPekelman · 2022-09-18
Open on HN
Loading the discussion…

Domain filters

Stories from these domains are hidden from every list. Subdomains match too: blocking substack.com also hides danluu.substack.com. Type a domain, or paste a link to block its site, and press Enter.

New collection

Delete this collection?

About YAVCHN

YAVCHN is a reader for Hacker News and Lobsters, with articles and discussions in separate windows or Classic pages.

Created by Paul Parks and built with PUDL.

YAVCHN source code on GitHub

Privacy policy · Terms of use

Help

Keyboard

j / k
Move down and up the story list. The arrow keys scroll whatever has focus.
Enter
Read the marked story in the article reader.
[ / ]
Read the story above or below in the list, in the same article reader. Back returns to the story you came from.
p
Pin or unpin the marked story, which keeps it in Pinned.
n / N
Move to the next or previous top-level comment in the window in front.
c
Collapse or expand that comment.
f
Hide or show the story list.
Esc
Close a menu or this help.
Access key m
Go to the menu bar. Most browsers take it with Alt on Windows and Linux, and Safari with Control and Option.
?
Show this help.

Windows

Each story opens in a window holding its article above its discussion; drag the bar between them to share the room differently. A window can be moved by its title bar, resized from any edge, snapped to a half or a corner by dragging it there, maximised, or minimised to the bar at the foot of the page. Use Window > New reader window to open an empty reader, or Story > Open in new reader window to open another reader for the current article. Docked readers keep their articles when you select another story from the sidebar. Minimized readers can be restored and reused for their site. A window's Previous and Next buttons read up and down the list in the same window.

A link in a comment or an article to another Hacker News or Lobsters thread opens that thread in a window too. A link to a single HN comment opens the comment above its replies.

While a story's window is in front, the Story and Discussion menus in the menu bar hold its commands: pinning, Previous and Next story, sorting, collapsing every thread, jumping to the first new comment. Each window also remembers where you were in its article and discussion, so a reload, or Back to a story that Next took you past, finds your place again. Closing a window forgets it.

The whole arrangement lives in the address, so a bookmark or a shared link brings it back, and Back undoes the last change. Moving between Hacker News, Lobsters, their lists, Pinned and Find changes only the list, and leaves the windows open.

The list

The pin at the start of a row keeps the story in Pinned, and the cross at its end hides it. Pinned can be narrowed by words in the title, site or author, by source, and to the stories you haven't opened yet, and ordered by when you pinned them, by points or by comments; the filters are part of the address, so a filtered view can be bookmarked. Scroll past the end of the list to load more. Domain filters, in the View menu, hide every story from a site.

Collections are named lists of stories. Story > Add to collection files the story in front into one or more of them, and the Collections feed shows them all or one at a time; the menu that chooses collections also creates, renames, and deletes them. A note is your own text on a story. Choose Add note in a story's toolbar to write one; it saves as you type. Rows with a note carry the note mark, and the Notes feed lists every noted story and searches the text of your notes.

Browsing view

View > Windowed and View > Classic select the browsing view and save your default in this browser. Window view reuses a reader for each feed. Classic view opens stories and applets as pages. Open as a page is a one-off action that does not change your saved default. Use the Windowed selector to return an article to a window. Direct page links always open as pages.

Applets

The Applets menu in the menu bar holds three tools, each a window of its own. Replies to me takes your Hacker News user name and lists the replies to your last thirty comments and stories, checking again every three minutes while it is open, and marking what is new since you last marked them read. Look up a user opens a profile on Hacker News or Lobsters, with their submissions and recent comments, as a commenter's name in any discussion does; the bar at the top of a profile looks up someone else in the same window, and Back returns to the one before. Who is hiring? filters the posts of HN's monthly hiring threads by the words you type.

They read only what the sites publish to everyone, so none of them asks for a login, and your user name stays in this browser anonymously and is included in retained applet state when signed in.

Find

Find takes any link and lists every time it was submitted to Hacker News and Lobsters, so you can read each discussion of it.

About

YAVCHN never sees your Hacker News or Lobsters login. The discussion is fetched from each site's public API; to vote or reply, follow the link above the discussion, or the arrow beside a comment, to the source's own site. Without a YAVCHN account, your data stays in this browser. When signed in, pins, collections, notes, blocked domains, and retained reading state are stored with your account and synchronized across devices. Hidden stories and layout stay in this browser. The privacy policy has the details.

Open source: github.com/paulmooreparks/yavchn. Built with PUDL.